READ THE EMOTIONAL TESTIMONY OF 40 YEAR MEMBER MARTIN DAHLQUIST WHO CLEARLY LOVES BOTH THE BROTHERHOOD AND THE MCCARRONS
"I worked for Doug for a long time, but when I was done on the
phone, I was a little bit scared. Okay? I was scared
for Doug, scared for Mike, I was scared for the
Brotherhood because it just didn't sound like that, the
Doug that I knew -- that I've known for 20 years.
Something was a little different. Okay? And it scared
me. I'm scared right now for all of them because I don't
know what's going on, you know."
THE WITNESS: Okay. My name is Martin
Dahlquist, M-a-r-t-i-n D-a-h-l-q-u-i-s-t.
THE REPORTER: Raise your right hand, please.
Do you solemnly state the testimony you give in
this matter shall be the truth, the whole truth, and
nothing but the truth?
THE WITNESS: Absolutely.
THE CHAIRMAN: Please be seated.
Thank you. Ms. Griffin, whenever you're ready.
MS. GRIFFIN: Thank you.
MARTIN DAHLQUIST,
called as a witness by the Defense, after having been
duly sworn, testified as follows:
DIRECT EXAMINATION
BY MS. GRIFFIN:
Q Marty, how long have you been a member of the
Carpenters Union?
A Not sure. 38, 39 years. I don't even know for
sure.
Q A long time?
A Yeah.
Q Are you currently employed with the Carpenters
Union?
A No, I am not.
Q Are you retired?
A Yes, I'm retired.
Q What was your position prior to retirement?
A I was an assistant administrator for Mike, the
Council.
Q What were some of your duties?
A Grant and work preservation, basically the
drywall organizer for four or five states at the time
when we were -- we were took over and we were trying to
get back on our feet.
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Q And how long were you in that position?
A About seven years, I think. When I retired,
eight years. Whenever Mike became the EST. I'm not sure
of it.
Q Marty, how do you know Mike McCarron?
A Through work basically. You know, I met him
doing a -- we had both our tools on and we were doing a
homeless shelter out in L.A. was the first time I met
him. And we both went to work for the drywall trust and
we both went to work for Doug over at 1506. And we
worked -- I've worked alongside of Mike when I -- when I
was still working for 20 years straight, when I was
active for 20 years straight.
Q So, Marty, about how many years total have you
worked with Mike -- I'm sorry, have you known Mike?
A Probably close to 30. 27 of those 30 years
he's been a best friend.
Q What are some of the places you've worked with
Mike?
A You mean when I worked with him as assistant
administrator?
Q Just throughout your careers.
A Oh, God. We did, with our tools on, numerous
homeless shelters and things like that. We've worked --
I've worked in Utah with him, in all the states, Colorado, New Mexico, Arizona.
When Doug told us and gave us the word, we went
in and helped these other states, these other councils
and locals. We went in and did it. We helped.
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Q Marty, what's your opinion of Mike McCarron's
reputation in the Brotherhood?
A I think it's excellent. Outside of the
Regional Council, I don't know how he deals with these
people. He's dealt with them. I've dealt with Frank on
one of the committees for a short time, so that -- but as
far as the Council life, he's excellent. You know, he's
well-respected by all of the members. He organizes the
agents that he deals with, that we deal with, that I used
to deal with. They all respect him because he treats
them with respect. They know he's a man of his word.
The contractors have respect for him.
So I think overall it's excellent, excellent.
I mean he's a reputable guy, you know. If you had been
around him at all, you know, you -- you'd probably call
him a friend, proud to know that, you know, you know Mike
McCarron. He's that kind of guy.
Q Marty, what's your opinion of Mike McCarron as
an individual?
A Respectful, loyal, hard working son-of-a-bitch,
great leader, caring. You know, he gives a shit about
the people he works with and works around, that kind of
guy. Excellent guy.
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Q What was your reaction to -- I'm sorry. Were
you not finished?
What was your reaction to the charges against
Mike?
A When he first called me, I thought he was
joking. I told him he was full of shit, you know. The
McCarrons joke around. It was total shock and disbelief.
Q Who told you about the charges?
A Mike.
Q Marty, do you know Doug McCarron?
A Yes.
Q And how do you know Doug?
A Worked with him, met him when he had his tools
on and I had my tools on. You know, just for about four
years.
Q Marty, have you had any recent conversations
with Doug?
A Last conversation -- last time I talked to him
was at our union meeting a couple weeks ago. Just a
minute or two, a couple of casual, you know, "Hi, how are
you doing?" Mike Olds and I were -- we walked over, Mike
Olds and I, and talked, but just for a minute. Small
talk, you know.
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Mike had mentioned something about -- or Doug
mentioned something about, you know, he doesn't think
it's the -- the union meetings are the right forum for
Mike to talk about --
MR. DRAPER: Mr. Chairman, I can't hear the
answers.
THE CHAIRMAN: Marty, could you speak up just a
little bit? Do you want to take a break? Are you okay?
THE WITNESS: No, I'm okay.
THE CHAIRMAN: How about some water or
something?
THE WITNESS: No, I'm good.
Doug mentioned, you know, that the union
meeting he didn't think was the place for Mike to discuss
the membership with anybody, I guess, about the charges.
And Mike Olds said something about person --
being personal or whatever. And Doug got a little bit
agitated, but he said, "Hey, you know, we already -- you
and I have already discussed that. It's not personal."
And that was about it. It was pretty brief. For a
minute or two I talked to Doug then.
conversations besides the one at Local 1506?
A Well, a week or so before -- I'm not sure, my
dates are all running together --
Randy Thornberg had been calling me back and forth trying to get me been calling me back and forth trying to get me to talk
to Mike, and I had been talking to Mike a little bit.
And on one of the occasions, he had told me that, you
know, that Doug would like to talk to you if you could.
I said, "Yeah, I can. I'll call him if I can."
So I called Doug. I imagine at 1:00 in the
afternoon he's a busy man. But he called me back about
5:00 that day and we talked for almost an hour. We had a
lengthy conversation, the longest I've ever talked with Doug in the four years I've known him anyway.
Q What did you discuss in that conversation,
Marty?
A All kinds of stuff. Doug did most of the
talking. Okay? I listened a lot. He touched base on
the charges a little bit and all kinds of stuff that -- I
thought it was -- the order that I'm telling is not the
chronological order. Some of this stuff is coming to me.
He talked about -- he mentioned something about
Sandy, he mentioned something about Ullico, he mentioned
all kinds of shit, you know, about Mike supposedly
putting his hands on Randy Sowell's back, up against the
wall and threatening him, about how Mike supposedly is
dressing people down in front of all the organizers and
just stuff that I've never seen in the 30 years I've
known Mike and worked with him for 20 years straight that.
I've ever seen the man do. Never. Ever.
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You know, finally, I said, "Doug, why is this
happening? Mike has done everything that you've asked
from him for the last 20 years. Everything. Why? I
could -- even his mentor, okay, he's -- he's helped him
tremendously. He's -- he's your idol, you know -- or
you're his idol."
And I go, "Doug, I'm talking to you because I
don't understand, you know." I go, "You helped make Mike
the man he is today. I don't get it. You know, I don't
get it."
And he -- I remember him saying, "You know
what -- " he really didn't answer me. He just says,
"Mike has to be a man and admit what he did," or words to
that effect. And I go, "You know what, Doug, I'm talking
to you because this is killing me to see you guys, the
McCarron family, tearing itself apart."
I told Doug --
MR. DRAPER: We need a break right now,
Mr. Chairman, for a moment.
Q BY MS. GRIFFIN: Marty, do you want to take a
break or continue?
A No.
THE CHAIRMAN: Marty, anytime you want to, you
just say the word.
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THE WITNESS: I told Doug, you know, "I talked
with Mike and I know some of the things that were said,
things you and him said to each other, you know. Words
said in anger that you cut each other to the fucking bone
with."
And I was just trying to figure out how I can
help, you know. I mean terrible words. Terrible words.
I asked Doug -- you know, half the shit I can't remember
it was such a long conversation.
MR. DRAPER: Marty, could you talk up just a
little? Mr. Chairman, have him talk up just a little.
THE CHAIRMAN: Take your time, Marty. Just --
I understand this is difficult.
THE WITNESS: I can't remember half the stuff.
Anyway, at the end, I go, "Doug, can you meet
with Mike? You know, you need to meet with Mike. Mike
will meet with you, you know?"
He goes, "I don't think I can because of the
board, the board charges. I don't -- " you know, he said
he didn't think he could. And I said, "Doug, can't you
even meet him as family member to family member, not talk
about the board charges? Talk about your family. Talk
about your mom passing away. Can you meet brother to
brother?"
And he said he didn't think he could. So he
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And he said he didn't think he could. So he
said, "Hey, you know what, Mike wants to talk, Mike's got
my phone number." And, you know, I said, "Hey, I'm sure
you have his too, you know. You both got each other's
phone numbers."
That's about all I can remember right now of
the conversation, but we talked a lot.
Q BY MS. GRIFFIN: Marty, in this conversation
with Doug, you mentioned Sandy. Sandy who?
A Sandy Maloney.
Q And you mentioned Ullico?
A Yeah. He mentioned Ullico.
Q Do you know what that means?
A No. Before my time or below my pay grade at
the time. I kind of have an understanding of what it is
or what it used to be or what it was, you know.
I didn't want to hear any of that, you know.
Just -- I don't know why he brought it up again. Doug
did most of the talking, you know. I did most of the
listening.
And when I got off the phone, I just -- you
know, I was sad, I was depressed, I was disappointed.
You know, I just didn't know what else to do. Just --
all I know is that two brothers that love each other,
that they're killing each other right now. Not good.
Q Okay. Marty, do you know Justin Weidner?
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A Yes.
Q Who is he?
A He was Mike's Chief of Staff. Used to be, I
guess. Not any more.
Q Do you know if he's still employed with the
Regional Council?
A I don't think so. From what I understand, he
quit and Doug hired him.
Q Doug hired him?
A As far as I know. My understanding, Doug hired
him.
Q Have you had any conversations with Justin?
A Recently?
Q Recently, yes.
A No, no. I tried to get ahold of Mike once or
twice, and he wasn't in. I said hello to Justin in the
last seven years I've been retired. Other than that, no.
Q Marty, are you aware that Doug and Mike are
estranged?
A Yeah. Yeah. I know it started about a year
and a half ago. Some personal issues just seemed to have
gotten worse needless to say.
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Q And you said how long ago?
A Year and a half, two years ago. You know, Mike
called me the first time he bumped heads with Doug. It
was pretty bad. They kind of half-assed calmed things
down. It started up again. I don't know the particulars
and all that at all, the dates or what was actually said.
I know some of the stuff recently that was said
between the two, you know, like I said, said in total
anger. It's just --
Q Marty, have you ever seen Mike threaten anyone?
A No, never. Never in 27 years. I've been his
best friend and -- never, ever --
Q Have you ever seen --
A Well, yet when he's been threatened by a
non-union contractor, whatever, "Yeah, okay." But never
physically kick their ass or put hands on somebody.
Never, ever, ever.
Q Marty, have you ever seen Doug threaten anyone?
A I've seen Doug chew some ass, but to actually
threaten, no. No.
Q Have you ever seen Doug dress down an employee
in front of other employees?
A I seen him get angry at the guys, yeah.
Q Have you ever seen Mike dress down an employee
in front of other employees?
A Never. That's not his style. That's not Mike
at all.
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Q Have you ever witnessed erratic behavior from
Mike?
A Sorry about laughing.
No, not one bit. Never.
Q So you've never seen him lick the walls or
anything like that?
A Never. The only erratic behavior I've ever
seen is when he's around snakes. Other than that, no.
Q Marty, how would you characterize Mike's
disposition?
Did you hear the question?
A No.
Q How would you characterize Mike's disposition?
A Right now?
Q For all the years you've known him.
A Oh. Disposition? Respectful, collected, calm.
He's not a real excitable kind of guy. He can get
excited, but mean-spirited or a danger to someone or --
no. No. Not with him. Never. Despite what's -- the
shit that he's getting hit with right now, that's a
complete utter falsehood about him. You know, the stuff
I've heard in the last two or three weeks from people,
that him being a danger to people and the Council --
MR. DRAPER: Mr. Chairman, I can't hear the
witness.
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THE WITNESS: I said some of the stuff that
I've heard Mike, okay, the shit brush he's been painted
with about him being a danger to himself and other
people, you know, I don't know how much has been said and
what I've heard that he's capable of coming down and
killing everybody, it's ludicrous, absolutely ludicrous.
And I know the reason you painted the shit
brush like this. Okay? It's to justify what's going on,
what's happened to him at the Council. You know, you
guys taking it over.
But him being a danger and some type of a
monster? Come on. No. Never, ever.
Q BY MS. GRIFFIN: Marty, would you consider Mike
a micro-manager?
A Not at all. He couldn't do the job he done if
he micro-managed. Too much on his plate. Like Doug, he
could never micro-manage, I don't think. He's got too
much going on, which it's impossible to micro-manage
that.
Q Marty, did you receive the supervision letter
that was distributed yesterday?
A No. Didn't read it.
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Q Didn't read it?
A No. The guys -- some of the guys in the room
read it, what was going on. I just -- I didn't waste my
time, and to be honest with you, I glanced at the
charges, threw them down, never read the charges because
I know it's bullshit, every bit of it, every bit of it.
Q Marty, my last question, back to the
conversation that you described with us that you had with
Doug McCarron that lasted approximately an hour where
Doug did all of the talking or most of the talking --
A Uh-huh.
Q -- was that unusual and out of character for
Doug to call you and have that type of a conversation or
was that normal?
A You know, again, I hadn't talked to -- I worked
for Doug for a long time, but when I was done on the
phone, I was a little bit scared. Okay? I was scared
for Doug, scared for Mike, I was scared for the
Brotherhood because it just didn't sound like that, the
Doug that I knew -- that I've known for 20 years.
Something was a little different. Okay? And it scared
me. I'm scared right now for all of them because I don't
know what's going on, you know. I don't understand it.
Everybody here -- most everybody here, , you know, and he's done tremendous work for
this Brotherhood with it. He's cut the cancer out, cut
all the deadwood out of this organization, and it's like
he's turned the sword on himself and I don't get it.
It's like he's cutting his right arm off. I don't get it. I don't get it.
MS. GRIFFIN: Thank you, Marty. No further
questions.
THE CHAIRMAN: Brother Draper, any cross?
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CROSS-EXAMINATION
BY MR. DRAPER:
Q Are you okay, Marty?
A Yeah.
Q Okay. Nice seeing you, by the way.
A Nice seeing you, Mike.
Q How long have you been retired, Marty?
A Almost seven years now.
Q Okay. For the record, I met your lovely wife
and she's quite a person.
A Thank you.
Q Marty, you haven't been involved in the
day-to-day Council business with the Regional Council for
the last seven years; is that correct?
A Correct. That is correct. Q So none of this stuff in relationship to the
charges or anything were you a party to or had anything
to do with or had knowledge of; is that correct?
A I'm assuming that. I've been gone so long, and
again, I haven't read the charges, Mike.
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MR. DRAPER: I have no further questions,
Mr. Chairman.
Thank you, Marty.
THE CHAIRMAN: Any other questions,
Ms. Griffin?
MS. GRIFFIN: I just have a few more questions.
REDIRECT EXAMINATION
BY MS. GRIFFITH:
Q Marty, over the last seven years since you've
been retired, do you still see Mike on occasion?
A Absolutely. Half a dozen times a year, maybe
more.4 Q Half a dozen times a year?
A Maybe. We still go camping, fishing, hunting,
riding, watching our kids grow up for the last 27 years.
So --
Q And this is a pattern that's continued for
these seven years up to today?
A Absolutely positively. You know, we go
fishing, we get together. If Mike wants to talk a little
bit about work, we talk.
Q Over this time frame --
A I have to, though.
Q Over this time frame since you've been retired
but you've continued on this relationship with Mike
McCarron, have you seen any change in his demeanor or his
character?
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A Not one bit. Not one bit.
Q So he's the same Mike McCarron that you worked
for?
A The same guy -- the same guy the last 27 years.
Same solid guy. Nothing has changed about the man.
MS. GRIFFIN: Thank you, Marty. No further
questions.
THE CHAIRMAN: Brother Draper, anything else?
MR. DRAPER: Nothing. Thank you.
THE CHAIRMAN: Marty, thank you for helping us
today. I appreciate it. I know it's difficult.
MR. THARP: Thank you very much, Marty.
MS. GRIFFIN: This concludes our witnesses.
I'd like to -- can we take lunch and then go into
closing?
THE CHAIRMAN: Yeah. How about that. We'll
take lunch and then we'll close.
MS. GRIFFIN: Maybe we can get it done today.
THE CHAIRMAN: Be back by --
MR. DRAPER: 1:00.
THE CHAIRMAN: -- 12:00?
MR. DRAPER: No. I can't be back by 12,
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